Piracy, Real and Virtual

(Last part of three.)

I wonder about Marvel and DC's mass market ambitions. You'd think Disney and Warner would make that a priority….

I think they just want to milk the existing properties for licensing. I've heard the theory that comic books are cheaper to produce than pilots for TV shows, but if they were serious about turning the comics into idea factories, they'd shake up the status quo, amping up the quality, the distribution, and the diversity of genres. The track record of new big characters from the Big Two hasn't been very good. Moreover, the very limited direct market audience that loves the megacrossover du jour isn't a good test audience for the next big movie or TV show concept. Flashpoint and Fear Itself were #2 and #3 in August, but should they be in theaters?

RE: Target: Lee, Kirby and Ditko, the best of the best, may not work as well in the context of today's times.

What do you think modern audiences might find lacking in old comics? As a kid 30 years ago, I didn't even think about how outdated my Lee/Kirby/Ditko reprints looked. I guess I thought of them as being set in some timeless "comic book world," where men still wore hats, etc. I found those old comics to be much more appealing than contemporary comics, even though the latter looked more like the world around me. And I'm not automatically drawn to anything just because it's old. I've never been able to get into the Golden Age because the stories aren't up to the standard set at Marvel in the 60s. But I may be atypical. Nobody I knew in school was into 60s comics and maybe a child today really would react to Lee/Kirby/Ditko the way a Katy Perry fan would react to Al Jolson, once "The World's Greatest Entertainer." What do kids, adults, anyone outside the direct market want in comics? Does anyone know?

Manga have been able to get new audiences outside the "traditional" one. Romance comics are selling again in the US! But how much of manga's appeal here lies in its perceived "exotic" quality? What can the US comics industry learn from the manga industry?

Dear Jim,

Thanks for your long reply.

I apologize for using the wrong word. I meant "obsession" rather than "passion." Not actually personally knowing any fans turned pros, I was extrapolating the attitudes and behavior I've seen among fans into a different environment. The people whose life's dream is to write and draw their favorite character may be more interested in that character than in craft, and the resulting product will suffer for that.

Anonymous wrote today at 12:35 PM,

Also, it strikes me that there are (as with certain other sci-fi and fantasy fandoms) a significant number that prize continuity and "callbacks" above good storytelling.

I'm not sure what "callbacks" are.

I don't think continuity and good storytelling are mutually exclusive. On the contrary, I don't think good storytellling is possible without continuity. If the past is perpetually fluid and has no connection with the present, the illusion of realism is lost, and I don't care. However, when fans blame "continuity," I think what some might really mean are comics that are more like trivia contests than stories. Chris Tolworthy has explained that critics really mean (excess) "complexity," "trivia," and "constancy" when they complain about "continuity." All these things are fannish and mean nothing to civilians. Excess complexity and trivia reward the fan who's tried to memorize everything about a universe and constancy gives the fan the same thing he's loved ever since he was four forever. "Mainstream" US superhero comics strike me as being by fans for fans. More complexity! More trivia! More titles! In two words, more stimuli. Not more craft.

But that was my outsider's guess. You gave an insider's view:

"Many a writer and artist just turned the crank and cashed the check."

The problem seems to be that some people lose their passion once they get their dream job.

[MikeAnon:] I want to hazard that the shift from cultivating stories to cultivating "names" happened in 1985 when DC pulled off "Crisis on Infinite Earths." Prior to that event, in which characters' histories were "rebooted" for the first time, readers didn't feel like they were reading stories so much as they were watching characters' lives unfold. You read Hulk and Spider-Man and Superman and Batman because these characters were *real* to you, you cared about them, and because you cared about them you had to know what was going to happen to them next. But when "Crisis" hit it became apparent that these heroes' lives were really at the whims of writers who were revealed to be in no way bound to continue the stories of old as if they should have any impact upon new stories. So reading comics was no longer about following characters' "lives", because those "lives" were only as concrete as the writers decided they were that day, and that concreteness could evaporate at any moment. So instead, people gravitated to following the work of whatever writers and artists were deemed to produce quality product. Today, it's ridiculous to talk about what's happening to the Hulk as if there were one Hulk, or Superman as if there were one Superman, but instead we talk about Byrne's Superman or Pak's Hulk because it seems like every time the writer changes on a book, they're writing a whole new character, and heaven help the stories of old. On the flip side, while I'm not a reader of Erik Larsen's SAVAGE DRAGON anymore, I have to give kudos to the guy for (1) staying on the title so long and (2) maintaining a consistent story for almost 200 issues. That's the kind of consistency we should expect from creative teams and comic book storylines, but instead it's the exception rather than the rule. And I think it's because of this that people now follow names instead of characters — because following the names gives you more consistency of quality product than following the characters.

Best modern example of inconstant quality due to creator influence that comes to mind: I just finished reading Mark Millar's ULTIMATES Vols. 1 & 2. Insanely good stuff. And his later ULTIMATE AVENGERS is good stuff, too. But right in the middle of those two runs, like a giant dark inkblot stain of pure suck, is Jeph Loeb's ULTIMATES Vol. 3. Because I want you to have a good grasp on just how bad ULTIMATES Vol 3. was, allow me to reprint some dialogue from a pivotal fight between Ultron, the Wasp, and Yellowjacket.

ULTRON: (reaches out hand to crush unconscious Wasp): "I'm sorry I have to kill you, Janet. I've come to think as you as my mother."

YELLOWJACKET: "Oh, yeah? Well I guess that makes me — " (grows tall and smashes Ultron) " — the MOTHER$&#&%#!!!"

[–MikeAnon]

Dear Rob/anonymous,

Re-read my post. I specifically stated that I was and am against torrent piracy, so you've set up a straw-man argument suggesting that's what I meant.

I meant what I actually did say, though: these huge mega-crossover-events are corporate piracy that completely exclude the "target market" companies like Marvel and DC claim are their number one concern.

Overpricing comics and binding them together as 123-issue mega-events create a ripe environment for torrent content pirates…

…but I never said that such piracy was justified, and never would.

My suggested solution is a combination of price-cutting and cost-cutting.

Going digital. In the sense that people SHOULD pay for digital comics… on Kindle Fire via Amazon Prime, or on Nook Color via Barnes and Noble or on iPad via Apple iTunes Store or wherever.

But the price has to come back down to earth. $3-$4/issue is not sustainable for a 15-minute read… often less than that.

And Jim's right that price isn't the only factor… storytelling has to get a lot better than it is.

Artists like Curt Swan and Sal Buscema and the like were not the most highly-skilled artists of their day. They were actually pretty vanilla, as artists go.

But they were decent storytellers. Their panel-to-panel flow beats the pants off most of today's highly skilled poster-art comic book artists, whose panel-to-panel storytelling just doesn't measure up. Or flow.

So there are many ways comics must change to improve. And there will be pain during the transition.

After all, no one wanted to see Borders go under, necessarily… but eReaders made the need for so many national bookstore chains less pressing. Barnes and Nobles survives only because they were more johnny-on-the-spot with Nook and planning for the switch.

A lot of great comic book retailers may disappear. And it'll be sad. But also inevitable. Just as when direct-market stores meant the death of newsstand distribution.

So, no, Rob/anonymous, I wasn't using FEAR ITSELF to justify torrent piracy. You clearly didn't read my post… at all.

One crazy aspect of piracy is that people download FAR more than they'll ever read. They gotta download everything, but maybe read just a few. There's a thrill to having everything, even though 99% of the files won't ever be opened more than once, or just to flip through it.

Photo referencing is also a matter of skill. Some folks are too obvious about it. That would be most all the "bad girl" stuff of the 1990s. Either the chicks looked horribly deformed or they were obviously lightboxed from a photo.

But look at the works of Al Williamson. A great example is the Bladerunner adaptation. Clearly photo referenced, even traced. But it's done in a way that looks natural–that the body and the backgrounds match.

Neal Adams is another master. It all blends together perfectly.

It's pretty common for illustrators of all types to work directly from photographs. Normally, they work either from their own, or from those supplied by the company (I have two friends who did movie posters at Hallmark who worked like this). In the case of comic books, I think there's too much working from magazines, and I'm surprised there are no lawsuits from Sports Illustrated or Victoria's Secret. And, let's face facts here, when it's done so it's obvious, it's trite, no matter how unskilled the observer would be in doing the same thing.

Well, in addition to whatever other business Jim has to attend to, it is also Thanksgiving week, so he may be a bit too busy to blog.

Meanwhile, here is a cool Jim Shooter-related X-Men picture by Bill Sienkiewicz courtesy of the "Marvel Comics of the 1980s" blog that should tide you guys over:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4QjcOI9H3SM/TqXrjuEOK0I/AAAAAAAACW8/ajtZIfI6C_U/s1600/Sienkiewicz+Xmen+promo.JPG

🙂

http://marvel1980s.blogspot.com/2011/11/circa-1982-bill-sienkiewiczs-sketch-to.html

So any idea when Jim might post again?

Dear Jim,

I agree that "'not good enough' is the main problem with comics today." Do you think any policies could improve quality, or would any improvement in quality come from individual creators, particularly those outside the not-so-big-anymore Big Two? Unfortunately, individual creators can't "attain the economies of scale that come with bigger print runs."

I've been frustrated by the fan "paradox" for years: how could fans become "commodity-makers — pushing the same buttons again and again that were pushed for them"? Shouldn't fans want the best? But then maybe there is no paradox. Totally guessing here without inside info. Maybe fans-turned-pros really think "the same buttons" are the best.

Back in the commodity days, Stan Lee would change genres at a drop of a hat. By his own public admission, he didn't seem to have much invested in his work. He was flexible because he had to be. He developed range. Same with Kirby and Ditko … and you — you've done steel, jeans, and Nintendo. (I still want to hear more about your advertising days.)

That kind of diversity demands a degree of detachment. One can't be passionate about everything. Passion can sometimes blind, and it helps to stand back sometimes and think about technique. When one is writing or drawing characters one has loved since childhood, the coolness can take precedence over craft. As long as I include the stimuli that work for me and for the guys who drive forty miles to the comic book shop for their $4 pamphlets, it's gonna sell. Complacency sets in.

And cronies move in. How many fans dream of working on "name" characters with their buddies? Those who get their foot in the door open that door for their clique.

Positive things in the fan world — passion and friendship — could have unexpected consequences in the professional world.

I had no idea things were so dire for comic strip artists back in 1986. Their lot must be even worse now, given the decline of newspapers.

Is mass market print even on the radar of publishers anymore, aside from TPBs?

A few years ago, Marvel published special comics for Target that were compilations of their best Silver Age stuff and some more recent storylines. I bought the classics even though I already owned reprints because I wanted to support the line. I went to Target — which wasn't near my home — mostly to buy those reprints. Alas, I haven't seen any of those in years.

This weekend at the supermarket, I saw a DC Green Lantern magazine reprinting the first O'Neil/Adams GL story with two more recent stories for $8. (Oclair from DEFIANT is one of the creators!) And some months back I saw a similar Iron Man magazine at Wal-Mart — maybe this one?. I assume that if these occasional attempts at civilian outreach were taking off, I'd be seeing more of them, but I'm not. I hardly see any comics on sale anymore. Disney Adventures ceased publication and the local stores stopped carrying the Archie digests. I don't even see Life with Archie magazine anymore — the only comic I collect after your "Dark Key" line ended.

I've long thought that nonsuperhero comics were the key to getting the civilian audience back, but cape-free print comics aren't flying off the shelves either. So genre isn't the easy answer I thought it was.

As for quality, even Lee, Kirby, and Ditko — the best of the best — apparently couldn't sustain that Target line.

I am now pessimistic about the comics industry ever reclaiming its former economies of scale in print. But I am not pessimistic about the medium. I await the next revolution. It'll be a black swan that flies in from outside.

I got the FF and Avengers collections in that format. The Avengers I bought when it came out for 30 and the FF one I got last year on Amazon for 30. Nice collections.

Denny, I was glad to see an Archie comic at the checkout line of a discount store and it had one of my favorite Batman artists doing the art, Norm Breyfogle. These Archie books are selling better than the typical Marvel and DC stuff from what I've read. I also liked the fact that Norm didn't have to adapt his art to look like the standard Archie models, he was allowed to use his own sense of design and basically it looks like Norm's interpretation is now the new house style for Archie.

Jim,

Aside from Frank Miller's non-logical, tediously ill-informed rant about Occupy Wall Street, I believe the readers of your blog would be very interested in your review of his latest tome, HOLY TERROR.

Do you think it rises to the standards of good storytelling? What do you think about the artwork? The lack of backgrounds? All the (what I think is) sloppy Bounty Paper Towel scrunchie effects all over the place?

We'd be interested in your review. I hope you write one sometime soon.

Thanks.

A lot of artists trace and a lot use photo references. It still takes talent to pull it off. A little consistency would help. You can't have a character looking like three different fashion models in the same issue.

Mr.Shooter,
I wonder what your take is, and any stories of events you may have encountered during your time running the shops, with the growing trend of 'photo-realistic' tracing lifted straight from magazines and books ala Greg Land and company.
Thanks,
Lamar

Sorry Antonio! It's just the blog's crazy spam filter acting up again and eating random comments. I saw your comment and checked on it. It's been horrible lately. I don't know why. I can't even turn it off.

ACK! Just noticed my last comment disappeared. Hope I did not cross any boundaries here. Mea culpa, if that was indeed the case, and I will prevent myself from doing so in future responses.

Hey Jim, thanks for your response and thoughts. I agree whole-heartedly with the sentiment you put forward in your final paragraph ;o)

Just want to mention however, I was responding to your application of star-driven or making the making of stars to the entertainment industry on the whole. I think it's always been a fabrication which runs on a formula, or at least seeks or creates formulas based on response and dollars and reuses those formulas, often times to death, looking for those who either fit neatly into it or can be made to fit neatly into it. I understand the comics industry hasn't always been driven this way, and I think I can see that it is driven much this way now, and, of course, "star" does not always equal "quality", which I think is where you were starting to go with it (please correct me if I'm wrong)- it equals the fitting into of that aforementioned formula, which often includes nepotism on that hiring side, and a lot of cheap tricks and gimmicks to push product, but maybe that's leading us into another lengthy conversation, and I don't want to derail the conversation here.

This is just my personal opinion, so it may seem pretentious, presumptuous, what have you, but I don't think most comics folk have much of a clue as far as anything digital goes. At afterparties during this past July's SDCC, I chatted with some folk from Marvel and DC, and even the entrepreneur who's relaunching Valiant. Of course, I'm nobody to these people, so it may just be that, but the reaction when I so much as BEGIN a conversation about digital, online distribution with comics industry folk is one of offense, as if I've just invaded their country and run off with their women or some such, and I can tell in all the defensive and sometimes condescending banter, while I'm simply being civil and taking a genuine interest in someone's opinion or thoughts on a very modern matter, that it's because no one has a clue what they're doing, or they're all in the process of experimenting and are very insecure about the outcomes of that experimenting. 'Cept for that Valiant exec- he was polite and conversational enough, but talked in circles (I'll understand if you choose not to comment on THAT). I now no longer chat with comics folks about digital distribution or online strategies ('cept here on your blog, guilty as charged, and thanks for the opportunity). I just can't stomach it, and would prefer not to look like an instigator.

Piracy.
i'm lat on this but let me drop my two cents on the matter. in the 1920's there was this movement to ban alcohol, it was called the prohibition. i won't go into all the details and morals around it but, i did pull some lessons from it that applies to the current situation. while prohibition may have had good intentions behind it, by attempting to stop the moral decay of society and families, people did not stop consuming alcohol. this resulted in a few things, the resources to stop alcohol increased, vastly, the demand created alternate sources of supply and the bootleggers got rich. the result they repealed prohibition, issued licenses and taxed the sale of alcohol.

to the current situation, the interweb and all the possibilities it posses, has put comics that we would otherwise have to buy available for free, and may very well be taking money out of pocket from the creators .also the pirates are not getting rich, that we know of. my point? the slow wiliness to adapt to a new medium, lack of availability on the interweb, and the the falling quality of comics in general, that cannot justify the prices, is simply making it easier to turn to piracy.

the moral to this story? do what the music industry did, if you can't beat em', join em'. the lessons of our history are right here to learn from, if we are willing. So i voted for Mr. Shooters' plan B.

As a side note to digital comics: A few years ago Marvel put out a bunch of dvds of scanned comics. These were legal and official put out by Marvel Comics. There was Fantastic Four, X-Men, and a Hulk one (I think). Each DVD cost about $50. Bascially, it was Fantastic Four # 1 (or Hulk or X-men) up to whenever the dvd came out. So we're talking about 300 scanned comics for about $50. $50 now a days would probably buy you about 12 issues of a modern comic book. Wrap your mind around that true believers.

Jim,

You mentioned Stan Lee aspired to publish a "real" magazine or write a daily strip. He writes the Spider-man daily strip now. I noticed a while back that Terry Austin was inking that strip and I think Joe Sinnott inks it now. Out of curiosity, is that a pretty good gig compared to inking a regular series? I have been a big fan of Terry Austin's work since the X-Men run. You don't mention him much and I know he was highly in demand in those days.

Neil

I'm curious why no one has commented on the impact all of these digital comics has on established comic shops. I've owned my comic shop for over 31 years and we've been the real marketing for Marvel and DC comics…The publishers sell the comics to me, non-returnable, and then leave the selling to us. Now, the companies have decided that, in order to survive, they need to cut us out of the picture. Sure, they're pretending that they want to "include" us in the selling of digital comics…but once our customers type in their email addresses and pertinent information, Marvel and DC will no longer "need" us…they'll have direct access to the customers we've cultivated for the past thirty years.

Anonymous,

That's all well and good. However, the bottom line is this: are you willing to risk being arrested, torrenting things for 'social justice'?

ChrisFusco said: "On 'piracy' in general – it's funny how much people don't equate it with 'stealing'. If your kid goes into a store and steals a CD (or heck, a pack of gum), you'd ground him. If he downloads the same CD off the internet via torrent, meh. Most parents I know wouldn't worry much about it. But the end result isn't that different. People just don't view it the same way."

It's not viewed as stealing because it isn't stealing. The courts already ruled on this. Downloaders have violated a company's copyright, but not committed theft. It's only theft if the alleged victim has had something removed. The "loss of sale" argument does not prove theft, no matter how similar their effect may seem. This is why big companies had to go to Washington for a law specifically criminalizing making copies (and even then, it's not theft.)

People don't care as much because downloading is a whole lot closer to making VHS copies (from friends' tapes or from TV) than stealing. Many of us made copies in our youth (pre-CD technology) and to many downloading isn't really any different. "Sharing files, heck we've all done that…" It's not like bootlegging, which involved making copies to sell for a profit. Now that is what most folks see as crossing a line.

I'm not defending it, just saying I am not surprised at all about the "meh" attitude of older folks.

As for kids, my teenage students are aware of downloading being wrong, but that doesn't stop them. If you ask, probably 75% will say it's wrong. But about 60% admit to having done it.

@Daniel Best – were you a hall monitor in school? LOL

Fear Itself isn't corporate piracy. Noboy is hijacking, stealing or doing any kind of piracy there.

It's a product offered to you which you can choose to consume or not. In fact, unlike many products, the fact that it is spread out over months allows you to decide part way through to abandon it and spend no money on it. you can eve read reviews about it.

further, any one reading comics for any length of time knows you never have to collect those crossovers into other titles. They may add to the enjoyment but they are rarely necessary to the main story and when they are, it's pretty well advertised that it is.

Who has the money to buy them all? Some people. Especially when DCBS offers 35-50% discounts.

Does everyone? no. Do you need to buy them all? no.

You do what people always did-simply, not buy it if you can't afford it.

You don't use it to justify theft.

Rob

I have no problem with the idea of downloading older comics for free, so you can read them, since old comics are not sold as consumable media but rather collectible art. So, say you never read some of the 1940s comics but always wanted to, you might just be able to hunt some down for auction or behind glass at a few select comic shops – however, even if you do you will have to pay for the "collectible" value of this aged book which may be quite steep. For such old, out of print books, I see no problem with downloading them for free in order to read them.

Now, perhaps a library approach might work. Don't let books be copied or kept.. but allow them to be viewed at some sort of classic comic online library… {man, now there's an idea!}

Just kidding. Maybe…

Best way to combat it is to report it when you see it. I've turned a few of the pirates into both Marvel and DC when I've seen them selling CDs and DVDs of supposedly 'public domain' titles on web-sites and eBay – public domain titles are not those that were released in the past few months.

Each time they're reported the respective legal teams do actually act upon it and send out the cease and desist notices.

…Bottom line after all that, you ask? Yeah, OM got a bit long in the wind with that, but here's the gist of it:

1) if you actually physically have full possession – read: own – a copy of a comic book, then you can scan as little or as much of the book as you wish, and store the scans in any format and/or archive as you wish. In fact, you can even make multiple backups to provide data security within your own home.

2) what you canNOT do is give those scans away to another person without giving the original books. By that same accord, if you sell your collection, you either need to hand over the scans and/or destroy them. This will uphold the legally acceptable part of the DMCA should some ambulance chaser try to have you busted over scanning your own books.

3) now here's the only really nebulous part of all this. Say you own a run of Jim's first LSH run, and a friend owns the same exact run. However, one of you doesn't own a scanner. The sharks hiding behind Valentie's Jock Strap – AKA the DMCA – will claim that not only can you not scan your own books, if two people own the exact same book one can't make an extra copy of their scan and give it to the other person. At this point, it's your call as to whether or not you'll abide by the "law" and pray it won't flood, or some drug thugs won't break in and steal your collection and/or set fire to the place once they learn you haven't been buying any of the X-books since Chuckles Austen ruined the book, or say =frack it= and do what's right to protect and at least preserve in spirit your investment as best as possible. Note that to this date, there has been not one single DMCA case filed against someone who was 'caught' backing up his own collection who didn't have that case tossed out with prejudice against the plaintiff on the simple grounds that a person's right to protect their property against an Act of Nature/God and/or Outright Theft cannot be legislated away. Especially as part of any shrink-wrap agreement.

…So again, if you own the books, have a decent fast scanner, and a lot of time on your hands, then scan your collection as much and as complete as you want, kids. In the next decade or so, comics will be more than 60% digital anyway, so why not beat the rush?

"Should I therefore spend several months scanning all of my books to create digital files for my personal use? Is that illegal?

Or can I simply download the ones that other people have scanned already, again solely for my personal use? "

…Here's the view that I've taken on the matter, followed by an opinion from a pair of attorney friends to whom IANAL clearly does not apply:

1) Once you've paid for those comics, whether you bought them new off the rack, overpriced from Mile High Chuck's back issue bins, or found them at a rummage sale for a nickel a piece, once you've bought them they're yours to do with as you see fit. There are still some restrictions regarding Fair Use that come into play regarding the intellectual property being reused/quoted/traced-by-Greg-Land, but otherwise once money has changed hands, you can read'em, collect'em, trade'em with your friends – provided you have any – sell'em for whatever you can get for'em, and even have mOM decide you're too old for funny books and launch into a traumatic homicidal rampage that only about half the younger judges will fail to let you off easy on, because they grew up reading Jim's Legion and Avengers runs as well.

2) That being said, there's this bit of bullshit "law" that was shoehorned into being called the DMCA – the Digital Millennium Copyrights Act – and that's what has a lot of people conbefuddled about scanning books. From what my two lawyer friends have to say on the matter, 1) above covers pretty much all your rights about your comic purchase.

…Unlike the case of software purchasing – where the warez houses claim you're just "renting" the right to use the warez in question, and don't actually own any of it including the shrink wrap upon which the breaking of is considered to be an acceptance thereof in most states where their respective attorney general's offices haven't been paying attention to certain aspects of legal domain, but that's another story for another thread altogether – printed material has rather clear-cut precedents established in the courts. So long as you don't do something as retarded as draw a new cover, change the indicia and/or rewrite all the words balloons and credit boxes so it looks like you wrote and/or drew the whole thing – and if you do this to one of Ron Marz, Greg Land and/or Mark Millar's piles of wasted tree pulp, you're not only retarded you're -tasteless- to boot – then you're free and clear to use that comic for whatever needs you have.

What I find very annoying is the lack of promotion and information of the products the publishers intend to sell, and I think that it affect seriously to sales, at least, mine.

I order my USA comics from Spain via Previews, so I have to buy them blindly. In fact I have to order THREE comics before I receive the first one.

And all the info I get in the Previews/Marvel catalog is the credit of an unknown artist, and the cover done by another author different from the interior art.

Do they really expect me to spend TWELVE bucks (three comics) on someone's work that I don't know?!

If I want to know how good is the artist, I must to spend my scarce spare time to google some previews in the case that they released one before I reach my deadline to order it.

I thought that if you want to sell a product, you must to show at least a small part of it. I have no time to google for previews for any existing comics. In fact, I almost have no time to read them.

Of course, there are exceptions, like Image's previews inside of the catalog. Sometimes I ordered a comic because I liked what I saw in the previews from an unknown artist.

Too many times I took risk buying comics blindly and I felt awfully disappointed when I received them.

Another item are compilations. I received so many awful editions (i.e. comics poorly scanned and awful packaging) that I stopped ordering them, when I'd buy many of them if they were well edited.

I have the feeling that they work only in very short term goals, no matter if this fact damage potential sales in the future.

Here's something I've wondered – Would modern comic readers be turned off by using cheaper materials in the printing of comic books?

I definitely agree that the most important aspect of comic books is the story. For the past 2 years, I've read pretty much nothing but comics from the 50's through the mid-80's, which I feel were the peak for the medium. The comics were printed on cheap paper, the printing was pretty bad, and the coloring was standard 4-color. So why do I read them? Because the stories and/or art happened to appeal to me.

In the past 15 years or so, comics have had better coloring and have been printed on better paper, but as a result the price of the comics has increased dramatically. But I've never bought a comic because it was printed on good paper or had a cardstock cover. I buy the issues because I enjoy the creators or know that the story will be good.

I think more people would read comics if they were much cheaper. I remember only about 7 years ago, most comics were $2.25 an issue. I had no problem with this price, and I could easily buy about 12 issues for $30. Now you'll find most are about $4 – The same $30 will get you only 7. How did the price of these comics almost double? With current inflation rates, a $2.25 item in 2004 should only cost $2.57 now. The only conclusion I can come to is that the companies are using better paper and printing, leading to a more expensive product.

Would the average comic reader be opposed to having comics printed on newsprint again, or using printing that isn't as advanced as it is, to have a lower-priced item? Sure, this new printing technology makes the books look better, but what's the point of a well-printed comic if the story and art are crap? Adding some more substance and taking away the flash of these comics would help the industry out in a big way, methinks.

Just going digital isn't the solution. It's going to take more than that, a new way of organizing the comic syndicate and company. Simpler, maybe cheaper. With a known eye for the advantage and crossproduct.

vaughn bode. now wheres my no-prize?

What's the point of all this?

To defend comic book piracy? NOT AT ALL.

But it is to say this: Comic book companies today SAY they're all about serving younger fans, not those in their 30s and 40s.

But they're not priced as a youngster/teenage hobby anymore. They've priced themselves out of the market.

Solution?

Go digital (DC just signed a deal with Amazon Prime, if I recall, and I think Marvel's considering a similar move.)

You eliminate the printing costs and the distribution costs.

Them you price each comic at $0.99 (just like a lot of Kindle books) and pay creators off the proceeds.

At $0.99 on eReaders, I do think over time, the best comic books would see their circulations bounce back to where they were in the Shooter era of Marvel. Solid in the 100s of 1,000s.

But if they go digital and stay greedy? Charging $3-$4 for each 18-to-22-story pages per book, and putting out 123-issue mega-events?

That is unsustainable.

THAT is why comics are dying, especially in print.

And inflated cost of ownership like that are why some people turn to piracy, I suspect. Who has ~$425 to waste on a 123-issue megaevent in this economy? Most would rather have seven videogames

Especially if they are pre-teen and teens.

And let's be honest… how solid was FEAR ITSELF on an issue-to-issue basis?

Too many writers and too many artists of widely differing skill.

At a lower cost per issue, maybe that's forgivable. At $3-$4 per issue? A whole lot less so.

The whole Fear Itself thing is corporate piracy… a bloated money-grab event that fails to deliver a high standard of excellence and coherence in all 123 issues.

At least Spider Island was more manageable.

What was it, 20-some issues? About one-fifth the scale?

Sorry, but FEAR ITSELF is an example of modern Marvel at its absolute worst.

So, yes, condemn content pirates.

But don't forget acts of corporate piracy like this, that makes a high volume comic book habit impossible for kids these days.

Defiant1, great post – I agree completely.

Mike F: Personalized print-on-demand comics is a fabulous idea! Technically it is no problem. All it requires is the publishers' decision to do it. Imagine that! Getting exactly what you wanted, in a personalized book of as many pages as you wanted. Brilliant! Somebody tell the companies that this is the option we want. Then all sorts of concerns about formats and media could become moot.

I think, the reason they would balk at this idea is that it would require an active and nuanced choice from the consumer, instead of our just saying yes or no to an pre-packaged product. The companies probably aren't prepared to assume that there are enough customers who will go ahead an make a nuanced choice, even if asked to do so. And sad to say, they may be right about that. But it's a great idea for a time when people are more pro-active and know what they want.

I wish the Marvel Omnibuses were printed on a matt stock, more like that used on the DC equivalents.

'I've downloaded almost everything out there and have full digital collections of FF, X-Men, Spidey etc.'

Some of the scans are almost like the real thing (sans paper); the colours and reproduction are so true to the originals – much better than the Masterworks and Omnibuses, which are always recoloured, resized, and shot from degraded copies, etc.

Pete Marco

Thanks Shawn, it's a fascinating new delivery system.

'And when I was a kid comics were cheap disposable entertainment.'

They've kind of come back to being that again – -except for the 'cheap' part. And maybe not the 'entertainment' bit either…

What we have a need for, is a disruptive entity. Someone to do to the existing Big Two, what Stan Lee did to DC back in the 60s.
Half of what Stan did was to make the characters different, and so on. But that's only half.
The other half is that he made every issue count.

Do you remember Action in the 50s and 60s? Yet another issue of Lois versus Superman, or maybe a Jimmy Olsen story where he has a strange transformation. They'd even tell the same story, maybe one year later, same plot, different art.

Before Marvel, was there really a point to getting every issue of a comic? Or was it just 'eh, miss this issue, there'll be another in a month'?

At least, that's one way to look at it.

We all know the current status quo is not survivable. We all know that comics have importance, we want super heroes to survive.

A new paradigm needs to be established somehow.

We know that DC acts as basically a plot engine to a publishing company. I'm wondering if that can be done again. Is there someone out there that wants something to exploit?

Can comics be created as concept feeders to video games, perhaps? Do you think EA could have their own farm team? It has been done, sort of: City of Heroes shipped an issue of their own comic monthly to every subscriber… and they had over 200,000 subscribers at launch.

I should talk to my friend at Bioware. This is an idea.

Sorry, the above comment was mine – forgot to type my name in… which is:

Pete Marco

The Comic book industry is overpricing its digital content. 99 cents is THE price for digital content. That's all the customer will pay for a new, untested product. Until the comic book industry can rebuild its reputation,they can't go demanding full print price for product right off the bat. The audience isn't there yet.

Publishers have to realize they are asking the customer to give them a chance to see if they like comics again. Over the past twenty years casual readers have been turned off, and kids just don't care. The industry has to rebuild its reputation with the audience and they need an incentive for them to give comics a try. 99 cent comics and free comics will go a long way in fostering goodwill with the general public.

Long-term offering free content will go a long way in stopping piracy. Why go to Kazaaa or Bittorrent for content and risk a virus or malware when you can get a legit copy?

Also, content on both has to be DRM (digital Rights Management) Free so it can be copied, traded and swapped. People love to trade and swap MP3s, and they should be able to do the same with digital comics.

I know offering free samples and 99 cent eBooks because it was a huge success for me this Summer. I've been offering free eBooks since May of this year on smashwords and I still offer some right now to entice readers to try my work.
Over the summer I offered free YA content as part of a promotional campaign to get teens and tweens reading for the Summer. I got a lot of new readers with that campaign.

And to my surprise people liked the eBooks I offered for free so much they bought them for their Nooks, Kindles and ipads on Amazon and Barnes and Noble where I had to offer them there for 99 cents. And people were paying for the FREE content!

I sold a lot of eBooks this summer A lot.

If this kind of promotion could work for a small self-publisher like myself, it could do huge business for the comic book industry, moving titles at a larger volume.

Long-term, pricing is a major problem with digital comics. It's just not competitive. A comic at $3 or $4 still costs more than an MP3, a TV show or even full-length novels. The only way to move digital product is 99 cents. That's the sweet spot. Anyting higher and digital customers hesitate. 99 cents is the sweet spot.

My understanding is that Disney bought Crossgen to fill in a gap in their audience demographics. They had adults watching and buying the childrens programming with small kids. They were losing the small kids when they became teenagers. Marvel properties are still cool to older kids and obviously grown adults and males. Buying Marvel and adding it to their creative properties helps Disney appeal in some fashion to males and females from childhood into old age. it's the full spectrum of consumers.

BTW, I met INXS in 1983. Pretty cool guys. I think Michael Hutchence was murdered. He was dating Bob Geldolph's (sp?) ex-wife and Bob was blocking Michael's girlfriend from traveling to Australia with her kids. Michael was depressed, but I think the circumstances of his death were a tad bit too bizarre and humiliating.

At http://www.elfquest.com all the Elfquest comics that ever came out are freely available to read. This is great; I think it would be a good thing for Marvel and DC to make a lot of older stuff freely available, and also give people substantial previews of new stuff. The only reason not to do this would be if they don't trust in people wanting to buy it after having had a taste of it, and then the problem is with the quality.

I think comics piracy is a very complex issue. There's no guarantee whatsoever that people who download pirated comics would otherwise have bought them, which means it may not affect the industry appreciably. Add to this that it is probably the case that the biggest consumers and producers of pirated comics are also the biggest collectors, who are already supporting the industry. Proliferating scanned comics on the internet may even amount to massive free publicity for the publishers. So it doesn't seem clear to me at all whether the net effect of comic pirating is positive or negative. Maybe it's negligible for the publishers.

Also, economics 101 says that as soon as a commodity can be copied ad infinitum, the law of supply and demand does not apply. If supply is infinite, why should it cost anything? That's not even just a snarky question. In the long run (and preferably in the short, too), business models simply have to undergo some serious restructuring to adapt to this new situation.

Online advertising might be the answer. In fact, might it not be the case that if the big companies could simply draw enough people to their website to read free digital comics, then the advertising revenues alone would be profit enough to keep the business prosperous? It seems to work for some people. But maybe the comics industry is not big enough, I don't know.

I feel as though I should defend people torrenting stuff for free on the internet. At our public library right now, is a dvd copy of Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull. If I wanted to, I could go to the library, check that out dvd and watch it for free. Anybody with a library card, who lives in my town, could go and check out that dvd and watch that movie for free. But, technically aren't we all practicing a form of offline torrenting? In fact the public library is full of books, movies, cds that people can check out for free. The authors, filmmakers, record companies, don't make a dime on anything anybody checks out of the library. So apparently it's okay and legal if the public library practices a form of offline file sharing? And if library doesn't have what your looking for, you can do an interlibrary loan. So another library will send the material to another library so the patron can check it out for free. How is that any different from what a bit torrent site is offering? I guess I just don't understand everybody freaking out about internet piracy. If people want your product they will buy. It's as simple as that. The only different is, pirating a movie or comic, allows you to try before you buy. I can understand why a studio or publisher would freak out about that (especially if they are producing is total crap). And as for comic book companies worrying about me pirating their new comics… that fear is completely unjustified. Outside of Showcases or Essentials I have no interest in buying or reading any of their stuff now-a-days.

Hey Jim

Been following your blog for a while now. One of those people that you brouhgt into comics for the long run with Secret War.

I live in Sweden and over here the music industry lost the war. CD's are not something you buy anymore. There used to be a chain of stores called megahertz when I was younger. It was a place you sort of hang around at. It was the biggest chain of music. I haven't seen one of those in years now. All cd that are being sold are done so over the internet.

The music industry is a strange example too since many are in it for the concerts. So the cd's are not the important part for many. We use a service called Spotify(listen to songs for free and get commercials inbetween) in Sweden. It has replaced itunes and almost stopped illegal downloading.

A miliar model could be used for comics in the future. Making it so that a archive is acessable for you to read from. Still making sure that no copies of comics exist on your harddrive. With an add system giving creators their income. What I guess would be necessary to make it work like Spotify is a large number of users. Gicing the most viewed comics a more desirealbe spot for commercails and therefore more money.

It would be free or a msall fee every month. Spotify started as free and is now a small fee or you get limited availabilty.

XKCD is brilliant, as is TheOatmeal, which sells merchandise based on the comics.

About downloading the comics to your hard drive legally… Comixology (which does Marvel and DC among others) is set up in such a way that the comics are on their servers and you access them–you never physically have the comic files on your personal hard drive. I am not a fan of this method–what if they ever go out of business? Then what?

t.k.

I used to work on CD releases of obscure early rock bands, and for several years it was a viable albeit low-key industry. It came crashing down when every note of music ever recorded became freely available online.

The pirates don't realize (or care) that with nobody buying, there will no longer be anything for them to pirate. The 'obscure reissue' biz is dead, after several decades of success.

CDs are generally not seen as being collectable, so the 'gotta have the real thing' mentality doesn't come into play. Anyone can burn a CD copy and the artwork can be downloaded and printed.

As for comics – 90% of the last 40 years worth of comics are difficult to even give away. I don't think gimmick covers would help much; they didn't work too well in the '90s.

There will likely always be a hardcore of comics collectors who do want the 'real thing' (which is printed from digital files anyway) but not enough to sustain the print side of business.

Pete Marco

The real difference between reading/downloading comic books online vs going to a store and physically holding/purchasing a comic book:

Online = consuming
The actual comic book = collecting

Consuming is wasteful and done with little disregard for the work put into the product.

Collecting pay homage and respect to the characters and creaters and provides value.

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you, Jim, on the music business – I don't think coming down hard on Napster and using legal powers ever stopped the piracy; I think the music industry instead found alternatives, including reasonable priced downloads and platforms like Spotify.

The film industry has changed as well, with movies-on-demand, downloads, more films being released simultaneously on different platforms.

With regard to comics, the biggest problem is not digital pirate copies, I strongly believe it's that most of the stuff available is overpriced and not good enough. I do occassionally pirate comics, but, like a lot of people I know, I don't like reading comics on a digital format and download the first comic of an arc to decide whether or not I will buy the trade. If the comic is good, you'll get my money, but I'm not spending £18 or more on a TPB when I know most are going to be a waste of my money.

A related question, Marvel and DC have had a lot of success with their Essential/Showcase lines, lots of back issues on cheap paper in black and white. Would there be a big cost saving if comics were once again printed on cheap paper with limited coloring, like in the good old days (and possibly cheaper shipping costs due to reduced weight)? Is there a market for cheap, low cost comics?

I know I'd certainly be tempted to buy more if the prices were not so extortionate.

I like books, but there is something very nice about reading comics on an ipad. Hell, I know my basement really appreciates it.

Here's the latest British Number 1.
http://stripcomicmagazineuk.blogspot.com/
Trying to recapture a flavour of the old days, but mix it in with a modern twist. No free gift though.

Cheers David J.

Hi again jim,
I read your other post on distribution history ( thanks!),and followed the links to Mile Highs blogs and read tons of distribution history pages there.

I am a old fan boy now in my early 40's and will buy what I like regardless of accessibility and price. I do think to attract more new fans to the medium a major shakeup is in order.

Whether its Marvel or DC online offerings, it does not matter how good they are if potential new fans dont know they exist.

I believe some kind of cross marketing sustained campaign is needed- like throw in a comic book with a video game ( digital and paper), offer cards (similar to Itunes free songs) for free digital comics at movies. Its time to market aggressively and get noticed. Sell trading cards with a digital download, throw it in cereal box etc. etc. etc. Basically get in peoples face to get new readers.

I agree with your other suggestions, but I think its critical to get outside of the comic shop and into other places where people whom dont buy comics but might (video game , movie geeks etc) get exposed to it.

Thats my rant, pleasure as always to read this, its become a daily habit.
Glen

You don't hear a lot about the music industry fighting piracy anymore. The reason is that it's expensive. The reason Metallica led the fight back in the Napster days is because they were still in the studio finalizing a track and yet preliminary versions were already on Napster being shared. The fans aren't to blame for that. It was an insider who leaked the recordings. The lawsuits actually turned the consumers against the music industry and I don't think it's fully erased from people's minds.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122966038836021137.html

In my opinion, quality is the only thing that can truly draw sales. The people who are happy with modern comics are simply the people who haven't abandoned the hobby yet. How many more people have to abandon the hobby before the publishers accept that their own decision have prompted the exodus away from comics?

The audience is still out there, but reaching them is a huge undertaking because most people who left feel betrayed. It's possible to run a digital service that offers print-on-demand for people like me who want a tangible product. I'm surprised that no one has gone that route yet. I think it'd be possible to tack on a higher cost for people who want the tangible product. It's also possible to add bonus content to lure in the extra sale. Whatever road is taken to win consumers back is going to be a slow tedious one. Stockholders don't want to hear that. Stockholders want to see instant results. Upper management bows to the stockholders. The good thing is that with interest rates being low, all you have to do is show a reasonable profit and you are still a sound investments. About 10 years ago, the company I worked for was making about 7% profits. The owners flat out told us that they didn't have any reason to keep us open because they could put their money in the bank and make the same money without taking any risks. The economy collapsing saved our jobs. Now, while everyone else is looking for work, we are experiencing record sales and contracts. Prosperity and reliabilities cbrings with it opportunities. To make a mark in this hobby, all you have to do is turn a profit and convey a sense of reliability. If you do that, you are heads and shoulders above the competition.

Hi again jim,
I read your other post on distribution history ( thanks!),and followed the links to Mile Highs blogs and read tons of distribution history pages there.

I am a old fan boy now in my early 40's and will buy what I like regardless of accessibility and price. I do think to attract more new fans to the medium a major shakeup is in order.

Whether its Marvel or DC online offerings, it does not matter how good they are if potential new fans dont know they exist.

I believe some kind of cross marketing sustained campaign is needed- like throw in a comic book with a video game ( digital and paper), offer cards (similar to Itunes free songs) for free digital comics at movies. Its time to market aggressively and get noticed. Sell trading cards with a digital download, throw it in cereal box etc. etc. etc. Basically get in peoples face to get new readers.

I agree with your other suggestions, but I think its critical to get outside of the comic shop and into other places where people whom dont buy comics but might (video game , movie geeks etc) get exposed to it.

Thats my rant, pleasure as always to read this, its become a daily habit.
Glen

British comics used to have a free gift for the first three issues of a new title, with others being included in anniversary or special promotional issues and the like.

Nowadays, it's quite common to have cover-mounted giveaways quite regularly (some have them every issue), but the trouble with this is, that people are buying them for the 'gifts' not the comics. It also makes the comics dearer, as the cost of the 'gift' is included in the price.

Also, because the kids are buying whatever comic has the best 'toy', there's no real guarantee of brand loyalty to a title from issue to issue.

Marvel's all you can eat online venture is a winner. I've read tons of stuff that I otherwise wouldn't have and paid for it. Probably more to their liking, when they only published four issues of The Thanos Imperative online, I went out and bought it in trade. Probably much to DC's liking, I discovered Dan Abnett and I'm buying Resurrection Man in individual issues, something I rarely do. I truly wish DC had something like it, but they seem more interested in soaking me when it comes to their online offerings.